Texas X Riders

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8

Author Topic: Not Starting in Round Rock  (Read 12070 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hipshot

  • Texas X Rider OverLord
  • ******
  • Posts: 2795
  • New Caney, TX
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2012, 06:29:44 PM »

Mike, I don't know if his starter switch is bad. But mine was arc burned and it caused it to drag and intermittently lose contact . I cleaned it and fixed it. You may argue with my switch if you like, but I was there......................
Logged
02 1800C

RedDragon

  • Master of Monumental Proportions
  • *******
  • Posts: 3725
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2012, 06:44:33 AM »

Mike, I don't know if his starter switch is bad. But mine was arc burned and it caused it to drag and intermittently lose contact . I cleaned it and fixed it. You may argue with my switch if you like, but I was there......................
Are you sure Jim?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Logged

2005 VTX 1800C Red Tribal Flame
2005 Yamaha FZ1 Silver

alejandro1800vtx

  • Master Tejano Rider
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2012, 01:32:22 PM »

GET READY  :popcorn:
Logged
just take it slow

bluestreak

  • Master Tejano Rider
  • *****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2012, 01:33:58 PM »

Mike, I don't know if his starter switch is bad. But mine was arc burned and it caused it to drag and intermittently lose contact . I cleaned it and fixed it. You may argue with my switch if you like, but I was there......................

Unlike some on this thread that post meaningless comments with animated pics (because they have nothing to contribute of value) that are of no benefit to the OP , I try to actually help others and in this case, the OP to resolve his problem.

Jim..........I'm not here to argue with you or your switch, so to that end, help me understand something.  
When you say "intermittently lose contact" are you implying:

#1
"Every time" you press and continuously hold the starter button, the switch internally and intermittently loses electrical contact while your holding the button and causes the engine to crank-stop- and then crank again?
 OR  
#2
Do you feel it was causing your engine to just "crank slowly" every time you pushed it?
 OR
#3
Sometimes when you pushed the button, it cranked the engine and then other times you pushed the button, it did not. This is how I'm assuming your bike was acting.  I'm I correct?
My VTX switch had this same issue and this is the most common starter switch symptom VTX owners have with the switch.
 

The OPs bike does in fact crank the engine every time he pushes the button (not #1 or #3).............it's just "cranking slowly" at some point in the cycle (#2).

If you review and understand the control logic in that circuit, the starter button cannot be the OPs problem because by the sound of how it's cranking, it never seems to stop cranking to me.  It sounds to just slow down as the piston approaches TDC.  I don't hear or see any indications the starter solenoid is dropping out. The OP has not implied the starter button is not working when he pushes it............which is what I think your bike was doing based on how I understand what you've said.

Pertaining to your specific case Jim, if your problem cleared up after just cleaning the switch, I think the symptoms of #3 would have been the case.

If your symptoms were as in the case of #1........ then what had to be occurring was that the starter solenoid coil was intermittently being energized (so it was dropping in and out) as a result of the starter button switch intermittently making and then breaking the switch contact points due high resistance across the contacts in the control circuit (the starter circuit) and causing the starter to drop out and then re-engage. The solenoid would be dropping in and out as the starter cranks and you should be able to detect that with a finger laid on the solenoid.  You may not be able to hear it due to the starter noise.  I'm not saying what happened in your case didn't, but the OPs bike doesn't sound like it's doing that.  Cranking speed was changing considerably during the cranking cycle which would rule out condition #1.  A test with a volt meter can prove what’s really happening if the OP knew which wires to check on the solenoid when cranking it.  If the solenoid is dropping in and out, it will be obvious.

I feel the OPs problem is based on #2.  He's having a problem with cranking speed due to internal drag, not a problem with the starter button making contact or not. Right? To support my claim I use the fact the instrument lighting dims when it's cranking.  The lights dim as the piston approaches TDC at max compression which overloads the starter which drops system voltage to a point the lights are falling off.  Was your bike doing this Jim?  I expect it was not if you answer #1 or #3.  The OP can prove my diagnosis wrong with some definitive testing results.  Without them, we're all guessing.  The problem WE"RE having is that without definitive testing results, we're left to only guess or offer things that "could" be the problem.  We haven't been given definitive test results on anything.  Without them or the ability to perform them, the OP is left with removing and replacing parts until his issue goes away.  The biggest obstacle in trying to help someone fix their bikes in forums is usually the lack of meaningful info from the OP.  
Unlike some that just post useless comments with funny little animated pictures, I'm always willing help by offering logical troubleshooting advise if I can be fed diagnostic testing results, but to date we haven't been given much.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 02:57:11 PM by bluestreak »
Logged
AMA Life Member #xxx445
Cureent Rides:
73 Yamaha RD 350
85 Yamaha RZ 350
79 Yamaha Daytona 400
82 Honda V45 Sabre 750
08 Honda Goldwing Airbag
03 ApriliaTuono Racing 998
82 Yamaha YZ 250
02 Honda VTX 1800C
06 Yamaha YZF-R1
06 Yamaha YZF-R1 LE
02 Suzuki GSXR 750 Track Bike

bluestreak

  • Master Tejano Rider
  • *****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2012, 01:50:47 PM »

GET READY  :popcorn:

How was that Alejandro????
 :laugh:

I almost forgot...............:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 02:07:08 PM by bluestreak »
Logged
AMA Life Member #xxx445
Cureent Rides:
73 Yamaha RD 350
85 Yamaha RZ 350
79 Yamaha Daytona 400
82 Honda V45 Sabre 750
08 Honda Goldwing Airbag
03 ApriliaTuono Racing 998
82 Yamaha YZ 250
02 Honda VTX 1800C
06 Yamaha YZF-R1
06 Yamaha YZF-R1 LE
02 Suzuki GSXR 750 Track Bike

alejandro1800vtx

  • Master Tejano Rider
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2012, 01:55:24 PM »

 :rofl:   :notworthy:
Logged
just take it slow

SilverStreak

  • Tejano
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Round Rock
    • Hot Rod Coffee Trailer
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2012, 02:01:08 PM »

Guess I ought to know what an OP is, since I think it's me.... ??? I give.
Logged
"Are you guys ready? Let's Roll!!"
Todd Beamer
United Airlines  Flt. 93

bluestreak

  • Master Tejano Rider
  • *****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2012, 02:12:37 PM »

Guess I ought to know what an OP is, since I think it's me.... ??? I give.

You are correct sir.   :thumbup:

Serously though..............there are those here (including me) that are willing to help, but we need test results to help you.  Without that data, we're all guessing and you're left to just randomly replacing parts until it's fixed.
That gets expensive real fast.
Logged
AMA Life Member #xxx445
Cureent Rides:
73 Yamaha RD 350
85 Yamaha RZ 350
79 Yamaha Daytona 400
82 Honda V45 Sabre 750
08 Honda Goldwing Airbag
03 ApriliaTuono Racing 998
82 Yamaha YZ 250
02 Honda VTX 1800C
06 Yamaha YZF-R1
06 Yamaha YZF-R1 LE
02 Suzuki GSXR 750 Track Bike

SilverStreak

  • Tejano
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Round Rock
    • Hot Rod Coffee Trailer
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2012, 02:24:16 PM »

Ok I got that it's me, but what does OP stand for?

Guess I ought to know what an OP is, since I think it's me.... ??? I give.

You are correct sir.   :thumbup:

Serously though..............there are those here (including me) that are willing to help, but we need test results to help you.  Without that data, we're all guessing and you're left to just randomly replacing parts until it's fixed.
That gets expensive real fast.
Logged
"Are you guys ready? Let's Roll!!"
Todd Beamer
United Airlines  Flt. 93

bluestreak

  • Master Tejano Rider
  • *****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2012, 02:27:51 PM »

Ok I got that it's me, but what does OP stand for?

Guess I ought to know what an OP is, since I think it's me.... ??? I give.

You are correct sir.   :thumbup:

Serously though..............there are those here (including me) that are willing to help, but we need test results to help you.  Without that data, we're all guessing and you're left to just randomly replacing parts until it's fixed.
That gets expensive real fast.

OP...................Original Poster
Logged
AMA Life Member #xxx445
Cureent Rides:
73 Yamaha RD 350
85 Yamaha RZ 350
79 Yamaha Daytona 400
82 Honda V45 Sabre 750
08 Honda Goldwing Airbag
03 ApriliaTuono Racing 998
82 Yamaha YZ 250
02 Honda VTX 1800C
06 Yamaha YZF-R1
06 Yamaha YZF-R1 LE
02 Suzuki GSXR 750 Track Bike

bluestreak

  • Master Tejano Rider
  • *****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2012, 03:30:59 PM »

Upon watching the video again, I noticed the bike cranks slowly for the first couple of revolutions, then YOU CAN actually hear what I believe to be the starter solenoid dropping out and then back in again. That's the clicking noise that can be heard before it cranks again.  The solenoid drops out only AFTER system voltage has been dragged down to such a point that the ECU is resetting upon every crank cycle by evidence of the FI light.  At that point, cranking HAS stopped because the solenoid has dropped out due to a lack of sufficient voltage to hold its coil in.  When it drops out, voltage recovers and the solenoid pulls back in and cranking begins again because he's still holding the button down. I make this statement based on the assumtion he's not moving the switch as to change it's position, thereby ruling out the switch as the reason why it's cranking intermittently.  The solenoid is not dropping out during the first couple of cranking revolutions while the engine IS cranking (albeit very slowly) and voltage is high enough to hold the solenoid coil in.  This proves the starter button switch is fine for the duration of the video, as long as we accept the fact he's not moving it enough to change it's operation and continuity during the video.

If the de-compressor is not faulty, as by evidence of testing it as I have suggested, at this point I'd suspect the battery as just being too weak to adequately crank the engine over and not the starter button.  In fact a weak battery is most likely the problem, short of having results from testing anything to prove otherwise.
YOU CAN PROVE WEATHER THE BATTERY IS GOOD OR NOT OR THE DE-COMPRESSOR IS FAULTY.......... BY TESTING THEM AS I DESCRIBED IN A PREVIOUSE POST.  Do some testing.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 04:30:45 PM by bluestreak »
Logged
AMA Life Member #xxx445
Cureent Rides:
73 Yamaha RD 350
85 Yamaha RZ 350
79 Yamaha Daytona 400
82 Honda V45 Sabre 750
08 Honda Goldwing Airbag
03 ApriliaTuono Racing 998
82 Yamaha YZ 250
02 Honda VTX 1800C
06 Yamaha YZF-R1
06 Yamaha YZF-R1 LE
02 Suzuki GSXR 750 Track Bike

bluestreak

  • Master Tejano Rider
  • *****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2012, 04:09:31 PM »

In order to fix your bike anytime soon.................your going to have to get involved.  Perform the test as described in the video you yourself posted in your #16 post. Follow his directions.  It is an easy check.  
Let the bike set overnight without charging the battery and do the test in the morning.  You don't have to disconnect the fuel pump as the commentator stated.  Hold the throttle wide open when cranking it (it will not start) and read the voltage.
Tell us what you get. It's too simple not to do! 
Any money you spend will be better spent buying a volt meter and learning how to use it, rather than wasting money on removing and replacing perfectly good components in an attempt to fix it.  You posted the video, so for Christs sakes follows its direction and learn from it. 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 04:23:49 PM by bluestreak »
Logged
AMA Life Member #xxx445
Cureent Rides:
73 Yamaha RD 350
85 Yamaha RZ 350
79 Yamaha Daytona 400
82 Honda V45 Sabre 750
08 Honda Goldwing Airbag
03 ApriliaTuono Racing 998
82 Yamaha YZ 250
02 Honda VTX 1800C
06 Yamaha YZF-R1
06 Yamaha YZF-R1 LE
02 Suzuki GSXR 750 Track Bike

johnnycheese

  • Old Timer
  • ****
  • Posts: 143
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2012, 08:17:37 PM »

or take it to one who knows
Logged
Johnnycheese tuning center
512-767-4273
Builder and tuner of the fastest NA bike in Texas

xcaliber

  • Board
  • Elvis
  • ******
  • Posts: 5652
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2012, 09:50:14 PM »

or take it to one who knows
I gave him your name. Tells us oh learned one , what do you think ? I'm now curious as hell!
Logged
It's all just part of the adventure!

johnnycheese

  • Old Timer
  • ****
  • Posts: 143
Re: Not Starting in Round Rock
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2012, 10:35:04 PM »

no idea at this point but they have me working 70-84 hs a week
Logged
Johnnycheese tuning center
512-767-4273
Builder and tuner of the fastest NA bike in Texas
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8
 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal