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[SilverStreak]

Here is the youtube of what my bike sounded like cranking. It might help ya'll pointing me in the right direction. David from Manor, among others, was telling me to check the solenoid. I found another youtube about how to check the solenoid with a meter. The meter I have is capable of more than I know how to do, a Fluke. So on my day off, this Sunday I will be checking the solenoid. Which according to the youtube I found from a guy from Northstar Riders shows how I can verify I have a good ground coming to the solenoid, adequate power from the battery and if the line to the starter is good. David was also saying that I might have a valve adjustment that was too tight. If I cannot figure out my problem on Sunday at the solenoid then checking the valves might get pushed down the road. I remember that process as being a major pita.
02 Honda VTX
I wish I knew how to imbed the youtube video on here.
Ken

[SilverStreak]

Ah ha, whadaya know, I did the youtube right. Since I'm on a roll I thought I'd post the youtube video I watched about how to trouble shoot a starting issue at the solenoid, fyi, in case anyone else here is as slow as I am with wrenching stuff, and/or electrical.
Troubleshooting a starter issue NSR Tech

[Chad]

 It almost sounds like it isn't getting any fire! I heard the fuel pump prime up. Can you smell and gas coming from the exhaust when you are turning it over?  Also with the lights on the dash going off and on seems to me your battery is very weak.
 I myself would check the plugs to see if they are firing.
Looked at the video twice and when I start my X my dash lights don't do that unless my battery is weak.
 Wish I was closer would help ya out!
 Good luck and let us know how you come out.

[SilverStreak]

It almost sounds like it isn't getting any fire! I heard the fuel pump prime up. Can you smell and gas coming from the exhaust when you are turning it over?  Also with the lights on the dash going off and on seems to me your battery is very weak.
 I myself would check the plugs to see if they are firing.
Looked at the video twice and when I start my X my dash lights don't do that unless my battery is weak.
 Wish I was closer would help ya out!
 Good luck and let us know how you come out.

Hi Chad, I didn't notice any smell of gas. The battery is relatively young and my buddy that has a mc shop to my coffee place tested it and said it was fine. Without hooking it back up to the bike i connected it to the trickle charger in preperation for this Sunday and it went to "charged" pretty quick. However when cranking it once on the bike it seems to discharge in about the span of that video. It seems to be struggling to crank. Before it just won"t start at all, as it is now, I could have been riding the crap out of the bike, stop for gas or whatever and it would still get that cranking that wouldn't be continuous, but would still usually turn over befrore discharging the battery. Now, not turning over at all.

[alejandro1800vtx]

if battery is fairly new you can get replacement?
my 1800 did that one time and was a bad cell on baterry, battery would charge and show charged but wont trow the amps to turn the bike over, the 1800 needs lots of battery to start. Same deal on the wing, battery can show charge but if battery is just a tinny bitte off it wont turn over quick enough.

[Chad]

if battery is fairly new you can get replacement?
my 1800 did that one time and was a bad cell on baterry, battery would charge and show charged but wont trow the amps to turn the bike over, the 1800 needs lots of battery to start. Same deal on the wing, battery can show charge but if battery is just a tinny bitte off it wont turn over quick enough.

I agree on that for sure!

[wwaggett]

if battery is fairly new you can get replacement?
my 1800 did that one time and was a bad cell on baterry, battery would charge and show charged but wont trow the amps to turn the bike over, the 1800 needs lots of battery to start. Same deal on the wing, battery can show charge but if battery is just a tinny bitte off it wont turn over quick enough.

I agree on that for sure!

Me too!! 

[SilverStreak]

OK it's Sunday and as promised found some time to do the check that David recomended and the directions on the youtube video. I reinstalled the charged battery that didn't seem to need much trickle charging as I said before. I went ahead and hit the starter button to see if it sounded any different in terms of the way it cranked previously, and it sounded exactly the same so I stopped quickly so I wouldn"t weaken the battery for the next checks. When I used the meter to check at the cable connection of the solenoid the juice the battery is putting out it was right at 13 volts. Then when I am proceeded to check volts at the starter conncection of the solenoid I had my wife help me with hitting the starter button so I could hold the meter and get a reading. To my surprise the beast started, I mean not even any cranking for me to get a reading of volts on the starter side of the solenoid. It hasn't turned over that quick in eons. Because leading up to the point where it wouldn't start at all it would crank more than you would think it should and stop times the cranking stop or hesitate before it would continue cranking. So I let it run a bit to circulate the oil and tried it without me touching the ground and starter connection with the meter, and each time it turns over quickly.

Just got off the phone with David. He is thinking that either the posts to the solenoid could be loose or a solenoid going bad. I will check the posts that they are tight, bring a big screw driver in case it gives me problems and do a little ride check before the games start later. Thanks to everyone this far giving me ideas to check.
Ken

[Chad]

Ground post? 

[SilverStreak]

Ok I missed most of the AFC championship game, but I feel like I've been having sex today, well not with my wife, just sex. That is what riding after zero riding in many weeks is like for me. Ahh got my therapy.

OK back to the bike. Ran several errands and put about 50+ miles on it. Each time I turned it off there was some anxiety if it will start or not. Sometimes it made me worry with the crank that is not always quick and sure. Thinking about many many years ago in my teens and it seemed everyone had a VW bug or whatever, solenoids on them were always deciding when they would work and when the wouldn't. I remember that sometimes tapping it with something would occasionally work.

Do you all think that could be my problem? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it has that labored crank?
Ken

[Chad]

Ok I missed most of the AFC championship game, but I feel like I've been having sex today, well not with my wife, just sex. That is what riding after zero riding in many weeks is like for me. Ahh got my therapy.

OK back to the bike. Ran several errands and put about 50+ miles on it. Each time I turned it off there was some anxiety if it will start or not. Sometimes it made me worry with the crank that is not always quick and sure. Thinking about many many years ago in my teens and it seemed everyone had a VW bug or whatever, solenoids on them were always deciding when they would work and when the wouldn't. I remember that sometimes tapping it with something would occasionally work.

Do you all think that could be my problem? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it has that labored crank?
Ken

Myself I would clean all my cables on the battery. Then the ground that is to the bottom of the bike. Take the bolt out and clean and put back.Just me I would double check all my grounds. That is what I would do.

[SilverStreak]

I did the ground check with my meter to the ground wire to the solenoid and it checked out good. When I got the bike and did the complete skin and chrome swap from my first 02 VTX we did all the ground fixes when it was down to a frame and motor. So I think that is good.

[SilverStreak]

At the Ron Ayers fische I'm not finding a solenoid. What looks like it in the battery section is called switch assbly. Is that the solenoid? Anyone know?
Ken

[bluestreak]

Based on what you have posted to date........I believe the slow cranking issue is due to a stuck compression relief device and not a grounding issue.  Your problem appears to be intermittent. A mechanical issue caused by a stuck compression relief device can be intermittent and has been known to occur on the 1800's.  A wire grounding issue on the other hand, is generally NOT an intermittent problem.  Once it develops.............it stays in that condition until it's corrected.   
Due to the large piston dome area and static design compression of the VTX 1800, the starter alone cannot crank the engine fast enough to fire the engine, so Honda incorporated a compression relief device into the cam system to purge off some of the compression energy to reduce starter drag.  This allows two things to occur when starting the engine.
-   It allows the engine to spin fast enough to produce sufficient compression for combustion.
-   It maintains the system voltage above the level that it takes for the ignition system to produce a spark. 

If the compression relief device gets stuck in the "run" position, when the engine was last shut down, it will not revert back into the "start" position and relieve compression upon the next cranking cycle. The result will be a very slow cranking speed and very high electrical drag on the battery which will not be high enough to fire the ignition coils.  The compression relief device has two positions, "start" and "run".  Below 350 rpm this is the start position (cranking speed is about 250 rpm) and it should partially open the exhaust valve to relieve compression. The device resets back to this position when the engine is stopped.  Above 500 rpm it should move into the run position (via centrifugal force) and allow the engine to develop full compression.  I believe your device is sticking intermittently in the run position and not resetting.
Do a compression test to determine if it's stuck or not.  A very high compression reading (especially at slow cranking speeds) indicates it's stuck in the run position.

There is a very obvious check to determine if it's electrical or not.  Put an VOM directly across the terminals on the battery and watch it as you crank the bike.  Hold the throttle wide open and hold it there tight before and while you hit the starter button and crank the engine.  Don't worry.......... the bike will not start and rev to high heaven.  At or below standard cranking speed of 400 rpm and with the throttle wide open, the bike will not fire the injectors, so it will not start, AS LONG AS YOU HOLD THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN. Honda designs this feature into all of their ECU programs as a way to clear a flooded engine.  As you crank the engine, note the voltage.  If it's dropping off badly (at or below nine volts), it's a mechanical drag  or bad battery...........but not a ground issue.  If the source voltage is dropping badly during cranking, it's because of an actual current draw.  A poor ground would not allow that to occur.  Conversely........if the voltage remains high when cranking and cranking speed is slow, it could be a ground issue but it could also be a starter issue. 

At any rate, if you continue to crank the engine under that much load, the starter will be destroyed sooner than later. Do not crank the engine any longer than you have to, to determine if it’s spinning fast enough or not.  This should take only 1-2 seconds at most during cranking. That circuit is not amperage limit protected.  In your attempts to fix this problem, if the engine cranks as slow as it has been when you try it, stop immediately.  Continued high load cranking will fry the starters commutator in very little time and the effects are cumulative. The starter solenoid can be damaged as well. Under very high load/current draw, it’s sparking like crazy inside the starter but you can’t see it because it’s sealed up.   You may have even been able to smell it during past long slow cranking attempts if you were sniffing for it.

[bluestreak]

Just a guess, but see if you have arc burns on the starter switch contacts.

That has been my worry. Don't want to chase my tail replacing stuff that wasn't the root of the problem.

With all due respect...........Stop chasing an elelctircal issue.  That's not your problem.  You said you had the battery checked and it checked out fine but I didn't suspect it in the first place by verture of "how" it was cranking.  If it was the battery, the solinoid would drop in and out and you'd hear the tell tale clicking sound of that process which is caused by a low voltage to the solinoids starting control circuit by verture of the starter dragging the system voltage down.  Solinoids, kill switches and starter buttons will not produce the slow cranking problem your bike is having.
So........... Do a compression test to rule out a stuck compression release.
For your sake I hope I'm wrong and I stand to be corrected.................because your not going to like to hear what it takes to fix the de-compression device.
Someone stated you just had the top end done.  Did they take the decompression device off the cam?