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[SouthernXer]

Something that should probably be addressed here is lining up counsel... 
...You don't want to bet on a crapshoot with the yellow pages at two in the morning while a bunch of big ugly homicide investigators are waiting for your statement, and you're on the verge of an emotional breakdown after some guy just almost killed you for your wallet and you shot him dead. The statement you give those detectives will be carefully scrutinized by the vultures representing the dead guy's relatives as they map out the civil suit against you, and having an attorney guide you through it will be the smartest thing you can do.

Amen. 

[SouthernXer]

...I wouldn't want to step in front of a .22 or a .380.

[Snake Doc]

A special forces service member when asked why he carried a 45 instead of a 9 mm.
"Which one would you rather be shot with?"

[Swamp Rat]

I have this firm on retainer for the legal side of things, anyone that carries a weapon should look into this because even when you are dead to rights using your firearm , you will still go before a grand jury and that requires representaion and money, even if your no-billed you will still be looking aat a 5 to 10K bill just to be represented.   this firm is affordable and give you someone to turn to.  I have coverage for me and my wife AND my teenage son.  beleive it or not even he is covered should he need to use deadly force ...remember that teenager earlier this year that shot an intruder when he was home alone?  even tho it was justifiable and it was no billed it still cost that family areoun 14K for representaition.  this coverage only costs me about $25 a month 
http://texaslawshield.com/

[Gumbo]

I have this firm on retainer for the legal side of things, anyone that carries a weapon should look into this because even when you are dead to rights using your firearm , you will still go before a grand jury and that requires representaion and money, even if your no-billed you will still be looking aat a 5 to 10K bill just to be represented.   this firm is affordable and give you someone to turn to.  I have coverage for me and my wife AND my teenage son.  beleive it or not even he is covered should he need to use deadly force ...remember that teenager earlier this year that shot an intruder when he was home alone?  even tho it was justifiable and it was no billed it still cost that family areoun 14K for representaition.  this coverage only costs me about $25 a month 
http://texaslawshield.com/

Reasonable price for protection 
I would hope to never use deadly force.

[bluestreak]

...I wouldn't want to step in front of a .22 or a .380.

Neither would I, but if I was the bad guy and you didn't placed the shot correctly to the head or heart...........while I was still coherent and on my feet, I could probably continue my attack on you.  It only takes an instant for a bad guy to pull his trigger or lunge and stab you even after you have shot him with an anemic round like a 22 or 380.  If I ever get into a confrontation and have to pull the trigger, I want the aggression to cease  immediately after the trigger is pulled.  One shot.  FBI stats show that the average gun fight produced 1.2 shots.  What that means is you better be the first one to shoot............ and it better be on target........and it better have enough energy/stopping power to end the confrontation.  I'm not going to bet my life on a 22 or 380.  If you carry, you must carry with the mindset that the confrontation will be a one shot scenario because  statically that's how it will go down, so you better have enough gun when it happens.  We live in the real world not a Hollywood movie or TV show that depicts long drawn out gun battles.  While a long protracted gun battle could possibly occur, it is highly unlikely that it will if you bring enough gun and your proficient with it.  For those that carry a small caliber weapon and think it's sufficient, for your sake, I hope your attacker thinks like you do.

Anyone thinking that a 22 or 380 is going to put a possibly charging, PCP injected aggressor, on the ground immediately (without perfect shot placement) are just kidding themselves.  In a small percentage of situations these small calibers may end a confrontation but are you willing to bet your life on it?  I'm not.  Evidence supports the fact that they are not effective at stopping a threat on a consistent basis.  That's why law enforcement don't use these calibers.  The general public, on the other hand, gravitate to these smaller calibers because they are easy to carry and conceal........... on THE HOPE they will never have to use it.  They are putting convenience over effectiveness and common sense.  It's denial.  They have made a conscious decision to carry because they feel they may need a gun at some point for protection and this gives them peace of mind, but in the same breath, hoping they will never have to use it and therefore carry a caliber sized for convenience of carry rather than effectiveness.  A persons decision to carry a particular caliber for personal protection has a lot to do with risk assessment and it's very similar to how they think about risk assessment when deciding what protective gear to wear on a motorcycle.  Those that think they have very little chance of going down on a bike wear VERY LITTLE (if any at all) or INEFFECTIVE protective gear versus those that understand the risk of injury due to going down and gear up accordingly.

Any hunter that's been in the field much and has shot many different types or animals, knows how much energy and type of bullet design it takes to put them down effectively, to stop them it their tracks with one shot once the bullet is on target.  Humans jacked up on adrenaline are no different.
It takes a certain amount of energy impact to stop aggression.  In addition, bullet design is a big determining factor to effectively putting caliber energy on  target.  You should be shooting a modern hollow point (HP) bullet design for personal defense because it is the most effective profile for transferring energy in to the subject.  Shooting even a .44 mag or 10MM Auto without hollow point bullet profile is just wasting energy and produces over penetration.  That's why law enforcement will not use them due to the liability of over penetration.  Smith and Wesson developed the 10mm Auto at the request of the FBI after they lost some of their agents in a gun fight durring a felony car stop in Florida in the late 70's if I remember the date correctly.  All the agents had underpowered 38 Specials and the bad guys had larger caliber weapons.  The bad guys had been hit numerous times and still managed to continued the battle and ultimately killed several agents.  Because of this event, the FBI contracted Smith & Wesson to develop a more powerful handgun load for duty carry, the 10mm Auto was the result.  In service it was determined to have too much over penetration, even with effective hollow point designed bullets, and therefore was dropped from service and the .40 S&W (a short 10mm Auto) was the resulting caliber.  The all time best "one shot stopper" caliber as defined by FBI crime statistics, is the .357 Mag. with hollow points but they don't use that caliber because they want to use a semi-auto platform for more fire power after the Florida inccident.  I don't carry a semi-auto for convenience of carry so most of the time it's a revolver and therefore the caliber is .357 mag. or jacked up 38 Special +P loads.  Due to terminal ballistics learned in the 10mm Auto developement process, the gun industry changed dramatically in refference to hand gun bullet design because they finally understood what it took, in terms of caliber diameter, power and the type of bullet construction required to effectively stop an aggressor.

For those that think they should be using HP's with their small calibers in the hopes it will make them more effective...............you couldn't be more wrong.  In fact they are often COUNTER productive in these small energy calibers because using them doesn't allow them to penetrate to vital organs and results in too little penetration.  If you insist on small caliber weapons, use only Full Metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets in order to get as much penetration as possible. But my suggestion is bring enough gun for personal protection and leave the 22 and 380's for plinking because that's only what they are good for.  Please don't bet your life that my opnion, factual bullet ballistics and most personal defense gun trainers and writers are wrong.  Small caliber weapons are sold because dealers can sell them to prospective buyers based on the convenience of carry, not effectivness of purpose.  Most dealers will initially steer prospective buyers to respectable and effective calibers such as the 38 Special, 9mm, 40 S&W or larger as they should for personal defense.  But when faced with the fact a prospective buyer is balking at purchasing because "it's too inconvenent to carry such a caliber" or "it's costs too much" they will then suggest the smaller calibers like the .380 ACP as a suitable caliber just to make the sale.  I have visited gun dealers and gun shows quite a bit and see that sales approach all the time.  Sure they would rather you purchase the more expensive larger caliber gun but they also will sell you anything you'll buy just to make a sale before you leave.  It's not thier life that's on the line when the gun fight starts.  Bring enough gun to the fight.  You'll wish you had when AppleSauce hits the fan.
 
 

[Txcajun]

Hey Mike can you maybe go into a little more detail???

[Snake Doc]

In the mid '70s I had a friend who was a patrol officer with New Braunfels PD. I asked him to educate me on the difference between 38 special and the 38+P. His reply was the San Antonio PD carry weapon was a Colt revolver with department issue 38 special and they were not allowed to use 38+P and the that the standard warning to a felon was, "Halt or I'll chip your paint!"

[RedDragon]

Hey Mike can you maybe go into a little more detail???

 

[hooter]

Hey Mike can you maybe go into a little more detail???

 

Man don't y'all ever accuse me of being long winded again!    

[bluestreak]

In the mid '70s I had a friend who was a patrol officer with New Braunfels PD. I asked him to educate me on the difference between 38 special and the 38+P. His reply was the San Antonio PD carry weapon was a Colt revolver with department issue 38 special and they were not allowed to use 38+P and the that the standard warning to a felon was, "Halt or I'll chip your paint!"

Years ago and before the introduction of larger and more powerful calibers designed specifically for self defense, the standard police issue in more than a few departments across the U.S., was a revolver in 38 Special or a WWII used semi-auto in 45ACP.  While the energy level of a standard 38 is not what I would want to carry, the +P version is worthy of personal defense duty, albeit the minimum IMHO.  The 38 +P delivers about 270 ft/lbs of energy.............that's a hell of a "paint chipper" if you ask me and it's TWICE what a 380ACP can develop.  Another major drawback from using the 380 ACP in a semi-auto is that even the best manufactured firearms like Colt and Berretta (to only name a couple) run the risk of malfunction due to the low operating pressure levels of the 380ACP.  I have three firearms in 380ACP and everyone took quite a bit of internal tweaking to make them reliable feeders. A 380 must be keep totally clean in order to insure it has the best chance of feeding multiple rounds.  Anyone carrying a 380 should take that statement to heart because you will more than likely need multiple rounds on the target when a turd comes calling.  Concealed carry and duty carry gets guns dirty is a short time so the need to clean a semi-auto is more demanding in 380.  I absolutely would not trust my life to a 380 for the potential functioning flaws and the anemic energy level it produces, even if I kept it clean.  While the 38 Special, (even at +P)  is not my favorite caliber, I think it should be a minimum caliber and energy level one should choose for personal defense.  I have no problem going up against a turd with it.  The aluminum Airweight revolver in that caliber is very light and makes the decision to carry everyday very easy.  If I choose to carry the extra weight, my preference is to use the 357 mag in the all stainless Ruger revolver.  At about 544 ft/lbs of energy, it stomps.  That's a hell of a defensive round in such a small package.

[cybrhick]

On a similar topic...

[bluestreak]

Looks like a nice convenient place to have your speed loaders close at hand!