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[wwaggett]

Sorry, I posted this in another thread and felt like I was highjacking, so I deleted it and posted my question here. 

The last time I did my front brakes, I had trouble getting enough piston clearance. After installation I could hear the pads rubbing all of the time. I checked the wheel alignment an it was fine. What is the life of the calipers on the 1800R (2002) and is this a common issue? I also seem to eat brakes faster than most. I have 57000 miles and have replaced the front brakes twice since the 22000 mark and need to do it again now.  I remember reading some time ago about pad thickness, but can't remember where the post was. The last time I replaced the front brakes, I used Honda OEM pads.

Warren

[hipshot]

I'm pushing 50k on the OEM front pads; still got plenty of meat on them.

[Dusty]

I'm pushing 50k on the OEM front pads; still got plenty of meat on them.

Yeah Jim but you obey the speed limit and don't have to slam them on when you see an LEO! 

[hipshot]

I'm pushing 50k on the OEM front pads; still got plenty of meat on them.

Yeah Jim but you obey the speed limit and don't have to slam them on when you see an LEO! 

Uh..... y'might want to ask Marigold about that......... .

[Luckys Lover]

I've chased Hipshot a time or two as we've gone out to dinner. For some reason, we seem to leave the women behind us a ways.  So yeah, his brakes can get a workout, too. 

[hipshot]

Awhile back Marigold, Barbara, Wanda, and I met for lunch in Conroe. We were all heading back to the cat ranch afterward, and we caught the red light at the south loop (336) and 75. When the light turned green Marigold got on it and I, taken by surprise, managed to stall mine out . I fired it up and made up for lost time. I passed her wound out in second and stayed in it; as I approached the redline in third and prepared to shift into fourth, a Conroe PD car pulled out of the side road just ahead of me. The girls said I had the tires squalling as I shut it down. He slow-rolled all the way to 1314 with me on his six; the girls all fell waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back and suddenly seemed not to know me any more. He never did light me up, and he turned northbound on 1314. That's when the girls suddenly recognized me and decided it was okay to ride with me again.

[skipppy75]

ok here is the deal

there are markings on the axle rod that goes through the tire
there is suppose to be one fixed side and one floating side
the floating side should have a mark that should represent a sweet spot or close to it.
If you don't do it just right your brake pads rub.

I just saw a post on VTXOA explaining this more in detail with pictures.
Maybe showtime posted it but can't remember

skip

[skipppy75]

found it
http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=176753

[Dusty]

Thanks for the link Skippy! That's a great post. I always thought there was something missing and have had a slight drag for a while...like four years.    I had played with the same principle but not in the right sequence. Can't wait to get it right.
I copied the post below but the pics didn't make it.



 Post subject: Front Axle Alignment and Brake Rotor Drag! Must Read!Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:55 pm 
 
 
 

Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:44 pm
Posts: 2616
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri  For a couple of years now, I have read over and over again issues with the front rotors to calipers dragging after installation of the front wheel. This has been constant from dealers change outs, and also from owners who have decided to save a few duckies by doing their own work. I wanted to point out an omission from the factory service manual, as well as the proceedures for the wheel removal and installation on Bares site, and in the tech garage.

The factory service manual states when re-installing the front wheel assembly, install the axle through the left fork, left distance collar, wheel assembly, right distance collar, and insert into the right forks bore. Install the axles bolt and torque to specs. Once the axle bolt is torqued, then tighten up the right fork legs pinch bolts!

The purpose of this first part of the install is this..............Honda has built into the axle assembly along with the distance collars and wheel, a certain fixed dimension for brake rotor to brake caliper bracket clearance. That dimension is set to provide positive brake pad clearance. A dimension of about 0.7mm or .030 is the reference point when the axle and all is pulled tight to the right fork leg. That dimension is also fixed, and unchangable using the stock parts from Honda. By doing this, Honda maintains the needed clearance for the right rotor to brake pad clearance, which in turn eliminates most of the pad rubbing on the right side, due to the fact that the axle and the wheel are now in alignment along with the caliper. Honda has hard pointed that axle to the right side first for the fixed dimension!

With that understood, the manual then moves you to the left fork leg, and has you measure the distance between the left brake caliper bracket and the rotor. Again, a 0.7mm or .030in clearance is stated. Further, Honda also states to apply the brakes to bounce the front end to insure all is in alignment before tightening up the left fork pinch bolts. What Honda has failed to mention is how do you achieve that 0.7mm/.030in clearance, and what do you do to get it? The factory service manual does not state anything about HOW to go about getting that clearance. The factory manual does not SHOW any pictures either! Only a picture of measuring the clearance at the rotor to the caliper is shown. Further, that picture is not very clear as to where the measurement is taken.

With the axle tight to the right leg, and pinched tight also, everything from the left fork is in fact aligned for the proper right side clearance. The left leg at this point is floating in and out on the axle until you tighten up the pinch bolts on that left leg. Honda does not show this, but I will because this is the primary reason for the brake drag on the left side. Omitted knowledge of the axles alignment to the left fork leg, is the cause of our dragging and maybe some of our left hands off pull issues!

This picture shows the left side of our axle. Notice as you move down from my spike, you see a small machined groove in the axle? That first built in groove is the alignment groove for the left fork leg. Aligning the left fork leg to this mark is crutial to maintaining the needed referenced 0.7mm/.030in clearance to the left rotor and brake caliper area!

 

Here are a couple more shots!

 

 

This is what it looks like with the axle installed into the left fork leg. This alignment is WRONG! The fork is installed too far AWAY from the groove! The opposite holds true with the fork being installed too far in or past the groove!

 

Here is close to how it should look, but your application will vary from this mark a tad. Remember the right side is hard pointed already, and the left is floating. Push or pull your left leg to cover up, or just cover up this mark!

 

What makes it real simple is the fact the while you are up on the stand or jack, you can spin the wheel and find just the right sweet spot on that alignment groove. You dont need to whack the axle with a hammer, you dont need to lower and bounce the bike. What you do need to do, is follow this Honda proceedure and spin your wheel while adjusting the float of the left fork leg to find the least amount of brake pad drag while paying attention to where your fork is in relation to the alignment groove! Just a hair off center either way from this groove causes much dragging! Once you find your spot, tighten your pinches on the left leg, and go ride!

Show

_________________
"Specializing in teeth" "Thats 31Ts if you know what I mean!"

Last edited by ShowTime56 on Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:14 am, edited 12 times in total.
 
 

[snake]

 Thanks Dusty. If you had hit "quote" and then copied that, the pics would show.  Here is the write up with pics:

For a couple of years now, I have read over and over again issues with the front rotors to calipers dragging after installation of the front wheel.  This has been constant from dealers change outs, and also from owners who have decided to save a few duckies by doing their own work.  I wanted to point out an omission from the factory service manual, as well as the proceedures for the wheel removal and installation on Bares site, and in the tech garage.

The factory service manual states when re-installing the front wheel assembly, install the axle through the left fork, left distance collar, wheel assembly, right distance collar, and insert into the right forks bore.  Install the axles bolt and torque to specs.  Once the axle bolt is torqued, then tighten up the right fork legs pinch bolts!

The purpose of this first part of the install is this..............Honda has built into the axle assembly along with the distance collars and wheel, a certain fixed dimension for brake rotor to brake caliper bracket clearance.  That dimension is set to provide positive brake pad clearance.  A dimension of about 0.7mm or .030 is the reference point when the axle and all is pulled tight to the right fork leg.  That dimension is also fixed, and unchangable using the stock parts from Honda.  By doing this, Honda maintains the needed clearance for the right rotor to brake pad clearance, which in turn eliminates most of the pad rubbing on the right side, due to the fact that the axle and the wheel are now in alignment along with the caliper.  Honda has hard pointed that axle to the right side first for the fixed dimension!

With that understood, the manual then moves you to the left fork leg, and has you measure the distance between the left brake caliper bracket and the rotor.  Again, a 0.7mm or .030in clearance is stated.  Further, Honda also states to apply the brakes to bounce the front end to insure all is in alignment before tightening up the left fork pinch bolts.  What Honda has failed to mention is how do you achieve that 0.7mm/.030in clearance, and what do you do to get it?  The factory service manual does not state anything about HOW to go about getting that clearance.  The factory manual does not SHOW any pictures either!   Only a picture of measuring the clearance at the rotor to the caliper is shown.  Further, that picture is not very clear as to where the measurement is taken.

With the axle tight to the right leg, and pinched tight also, everything from the left fork is in fact aligned for the proper right side clearance.  The left leg at this point is floating in and out on the axle until you tighten up the pinch bolts on that left leg.  Honda does not show this, but I will because this is the primary reason for the brake drag on the left side.  Omitted  knowledge of the axles alignment to the left fork leg, is the cause of our dragging and maybe some of our left hands off pull issues!

This picture shows the left side of our axle.  Notice as you move down from my spike, you see a small machined groove in the axle?  That first built in groove is the alignment groove for the left fork leg.  Aligning the left fork leg to this mark is crutial to maintaining the needed referenced 0.7mm/.030in clearance to the left rotor and brake caliper area!

(http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/6442Axel1.jpg)

Here are a couple more shots!

(http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/6442Axel2.jpg)

(http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/6442Axel3.jpg)

This is what it looks like with the axle installed into the left fork leg.  This alignment is WRONG!  The fork is installed too far AWAY from the groove!  The opposite holds true with the fork being installed too far in or past the groove!

(http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/6442Axel4.jpg)

Here is close to how it should look, but your application will vary from this mark a tad.  Remember the right side is hard pointed already, and the left is floating.  Push or pull your left leg to cover up, or just cover up this mark!

(http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/6442Axel5.jpg)

What makes it real simple is the fact the while you are up on the stand or jack, you can spin the wheel and find just the right sweet spot on that alignment groove.  You dont need to whack the axle with a hammer, you dont need to lower and bounce the bike.  What you do need to do, is follow this Honda proceedure and spin your wheel while adjusting the float of the left fork leg to find the least amount of brake pad drag while paying attention to where your fork is in relation to the alignment groove!  Just a hair off center either way from this groove causes much dragging!  Once you find your spot, tighten your pinches on the left leg, and go ride!

Show

[heirloom]

Thanks for the pics, Snake!!! and thanks to all for the good info!!